Tuesday, September 27, 2011

HPV DNA in Gardasil: The Wild and Unsubstantiated Claims of the Intellectually Challenged

Quoth the anti-vaccine group SANE Vax: Beware HPV DNA in Gardasil!

Recently Mr. Hubbs has felt the need to jump on yet another anti-vaccine bandwagon after reading some random article on one of his many favorite anti-vaccination websites. Unfortunately for Mr. Hubbs, he has fallen into the same old trap of not actually understanding what he is reading before jumping to conclusions (or rather before allowing the authors of the articles he is reading to jump to conclusions at which point he merely accepts what they have written at face value because he lacks the scientific understanding to question them).

So it was no surprise that Mr. Hubbs would start adding comments to this blog about how some random antivaxxer website commissioned some research and found HPV DNA in the Gardasil vaccine. In fact, when I read about this "story" several weeks ago, I predicted that Mr. Hubbs would be jumping on this bandwagon... and he has failed to disappoint.

Now I could go into great detail to explain how these claims are unsupported or how the science hasn't even been validated. I could also go into detail about how the methodology used to "find" this DNA hasn't even been made public or how the results have not been replicated by any other reputable (or even non-reputable) agency. I could even go into great detail explaining how Sane Vax relied upon polymerase chain reaction to produce their results which effectively amplifies a single piece of DNA to levels it could actually be measurable... in fact it can be used to manipulate results if a scientist so desires at which points the results themselves are at best suspect, and at worse nothing short of fraudulent.

The thing is, I really don't need to go into great detail about any of these things, because Dr. David Gorski over at Science-Based Medicine already has.  I should warn Mr. Hubbs however that Dr. Gorski goes into great detail to explain the flaws in Sane Vax's methodology and he incorporates detailed explanations using technical terms and references to scientific processes... so it is clear Mr. Hubbs won't understand at least 80% of what he reads.

In any case there are a few key points to take from this.  As the SBM post states:

"First of all, one notes that there is not a single scientific paper–or even scientific report–describing the methodology used and the specific tests used."

If a researcher isn't willing to disclose even the most basic information which would allow others to replicate his or her results they are either trying to hide something (fraud) or they know there are gaping holes in said methodology (still fraud).

Sane Vax tries to blame this on "proprietary" processes, but you don't need proprietary processes to detect DNA contamination!  In fact, using anything other than industry approved methods calls the results into question, which is most likely why Sane Vax doesn't want to reveal their methodology.

SMB Continues:

"Worse, in the SANE Vax letter to the FDA, SANE Vax demands assurances that the FDA will protect Dr. Lee’s proprietary methodology before it will provide the FDA with its results. The hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty are staggering. More importantly, without SANE Vax’s alleged results being available to the FDA and independent scientists to examine, all we have to support the claim that there is recombinant DNA in the HPV vaccine is the word of an anti-vaccine group."

That paragraph pretty much sums up the game that Sane Vax is trying to play here.  They can put out a fancy press release and they can filter their idiocy across the land of anti-vaxxer websites, but in the end none of the results have been replicated or validated.  In fact, Sane Vax won't even provide the results to the FDA... which once again proves they have something to hide.  If they honestly felt there was something within the Gardasil vaccine that was harmful, don't you think they would be willing to provide their data to the FDA immediately?

I haven't smelled anything this fishy since I was in the Fulton Fish Market.  Unfortunately, we already know that these gaping holes are simply ignored by antivaxxers like Mr. Hubbs because once again they turn a blind eye to science when they feel it benefits their case.  Yet again antivaxxers push forth statements without complete understanding of what they mean, and once again they invent more and more excuses on why this data is valid even before a single result has been verified.

The ignorance of the antivaxxer community is astounding, but the intellectual dishonesty is downright disgusting.  That is never more evident than it is when Lowell Hubbs decides to comment on a "new development" as we have here.  To think this man feels he is some type of an expert when he doesn't even understand the most basic scientific processes is downright comical. 

Unfortunately, his ignorance and ineptitude are anything but a laughing matter, because unsubstantiated statements such as those Mr. Hubbs has made recently can be downright dangerous.


  1. In regard to this said HPV vaccine contamination issue, which Merck's product information claims has no actual HPV DNA in it. My belief is that it will all play out exactly as I expect it to eventually. This would as well explain entirely why so many young women have had the resulting non-recovered from health issues they have had. It makes way to much sense now, and the already existing supporting science as to autoimmunity in regard to the claim, that information is clearly already there.

    How selfish is it to not care about all the young women who are now left with these seriously life altering conditions. None of that matters to you right? The CDC and FDA claim there is no common nor proven link, ever. Well, there are allot of people now out there including the parents that would entirely disagree with that. And what is the cost to all these families searching for answers, Gardasil and Cervarix entirely disregarded by their doctors as even being a possible cause. It is now a large scale tragedy, and you will again and again look for any means to deny any and all of it. Just as long as you can muster another Gorski article and the continued denial of the FDA. The AMA itself has clearly raised significant questions as to the use of and as to the actual safety and effectiveness of the HPV vaccines. That is found in a letter document they released.

    You need to go beyond just quoting Gorski and actually do some investigating yourself; which of course you have and will refuse to.

    One of these times specifically show me some of that discrediting science you always keep referring to, and do it on your own without just referring to Gorskis blog.

    You won't at this time see the blogger emblem on my signiture, as the log connection to the blogger acct., isn't working on the current system I am using.

  2. So you believe it will play out "eventually", yet you are already making accusations and forming opinions which cannot be substantiated by science.

    Do you really fail to understand how that is a huge problem?

    Please don’t accuse me of not caring about anyone. I care... I care a lot, but I am not going to let emotion blur the issue nor will I start making accusations that are scientifically unsupportable.

    Just look at your own words Mr. Hubbs: "allot [sic] of people now out there including the parents that would entirely disagree [on the existence of a link between HPV vaccines and various conditions]".

    Really? So you are using opinion or personal experiences of others to determine matters of science? Sorry - in the real world it doesn't work like that. You can have a theory, but until you prove it via the scientific method that is all it is... a theory. The CDC and FDA state there is no such link proven because that is a factual statement. Throughout numerous studies both in the US as well as in the UK, there has been no evidence to support a link between the HPV vaccines and the problems that you and your fellow anti-vaxxers seem to blame the HPV vaccines on. That is the simple reality – and until there is some scientific evidence presented which can explain or prove such a link it is dishonest to make such accusations. Personal feelings and the misunderstanding of causation is insufficient to make statements of fact. I can claim that a lot of people believe in Bigfoot too... that doesn't in any way prove Bigfoot exists.

    Listen Hubbs - I know you get upset when I link to Dr. Gorski or Science-Based Medicine because they tend to speak at a level far above your level of understanding, but unless you have anything to counter their information your comments are worthless. The reality is anything you have ever shared here or on your numerous blogs and websites has all been cherry-picked from other (anti-vaccination and/or anti-science) sources, so if you are going to whine every time I link to an SBM article I'm afraid you are once again being hypocritical.

    Don't blame me because your sources are unable to support their own data or are unwilling to have their "science" examined. Blame them for spouting unverified theories and for claiming their methodology is “proprietary”. If a drug company released a study proving how effective a new pill was would you let them get away with making those statements if they refused to provide their methodology to the FDA for cross-examination and verification? Of course you wouldn’t… so why do you allow your anti-vaxxer friends to get away with it? That is yet another example of you allowing your personal bias to blur your understanding.

    When you start understanding how the concept of "burden of proof" works, and when you are able to step back and understand how true science is not determined by “proprietary methods” then maybe we can talk.

  3. I'm not going to allow you to turn this into a Dr. Gorski bashing session Mr. Hubbs, and I could care less what some other blogger says about him after their have had their feelings hurt, but since you asked for a simple yes or no answer here you go:


    Oh and by the way... I'm afraid we are NOT on a level playing field. Not even close. I would have to ignore a few decades of work and education history to dumb myself down to your level. Then again you do have that degree from Google University, so there is that I suppose.


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