HuffPo: Anti-Vaccine Vitriol: Seeking Reason

Dr. David Katz recently published a piece on The Huffington Post in response to some of the anti-vaccination nonsense that gets posted on the HuffPo website on a regular basis.  The amazing thing is HuffPo is known to  be somewhat of a safe haven for antivaxxers, so to witness them being called out for their tactics and lunacy is nothing short of amazing.

I'd love to cite some specific passages from his article, but the truth is if I cited only the parts of the article which make sense and which make very valid points, I'd end up posting the entire piece.  Therefore I encourage you to read the entire article in its entirety over at the HuffPo website.  You can find the article at this link:  Anti-Vaccine Vitriol: Seeking Reason.

Well ok, I do have to list one of my personal favorite quotes that Dr. Katz wrote: "In other words, if you want to offer advice against vaccination that reasonable people can take seriously, try being reasonable".

I dare say the phrase "reasonable antivaxxer" is an oxymoron, but perhaps one day I'll actually come across one.  It is difficult to imagine a world where a reasonable person tosses aside all logic and common sense while ignoring mountains of scientific evidence and historical records, but perhaps there are varying levels of reason.

Of course even after reading the article, the antivaxxers once again come out in full force in the comments section.  Sadly it seems most of them were unable to complete the entire article before posting because many of their comments are using the very tactics discussed in the article itself almost as if they antivaxxers were so enraged after the first paragraph or two they skipped the remainder to cut and paste more anti-vaccine nonsense.

One comment that caught my eye was from an antivaxxer who complained of a lack of "[d]ouble-blind, randomized controlled studies" showing the efficacy of flu vaccinations.  Not only did this particular antivaxxer clearly not read or understand Dr. Katz's article, but she also appears to be very confused about ethically questionable studies.

We of course have discussed this issue in the past, and frankly anyone of average intelligence should understand the moral issues with trying to perform such a study, but even more troubling is how these antivaxxers presume it is possible to prove a negative in the first place.  I just have to wonder if someone did perform a double-blind randomized controlled study on a flu vaccine and those individuals who did not receive the vaccine were six times more likely to contract the flu - would antivaxxers actually suggest the vaccine was functioning as designed?  I think we all know the answer, and that answer is "no", because they would simply claim there was bias, or they would challenge the funding source for the study, or they would make claims about how correlation does not equal causation (even though they are guilty of confusing the two on a continual basis).

The truth is, even if the results did come out as expected it wouldn't change perceptions or the minds of the anti-vaccination crowd, so what benefit would such an unethical study provide, and at what costs?  What if one of the test subjects contracted the flu and died as a result of complications?  What if those study participants who didn't receive the vaccine contracted the flu and spread it to dozens or possibly even hundreds of others?

You see when someone doesn't receive a vaccine, it isn't only them who is impacted.  Potentially it is everyone around them.  It is anyone and everyone who comes into contact with that person which is precisely why I have no problem with calling someone who willfully skips their vaccinations out of ignorance to be nothing short of selfish.  If you want to kill yourself I have zero problem with it, but when you put the lives of others in danger due to your selfishness, then I have a problem with your actions.

We have seen the ramifications of scientific ignorance when antivaxxers refuse to allow their children to receive vaccines, and in some cases it has lead to outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases such as the measles or pertussis... with the end result being hospitalizations, prolonged illness, and in a few select cases even death.

Therefore antivaxxers can continue to protest that no double-blind randomized and controlled studies on the efficacy of the flu vaccine have been performed, but it won't change anything and is merely a distraction.  As much as we might love to see such a study, it won't be happening anytime soon not only because of the ethical issues, but because anytime a study is performed and the treatment has such profound effects, the study will be interrupted.  It is simply inhumane to continue a study when a sample group shows such a significant benefit over the control group, and any long-term study of a vaccine is most certainly going to show this disparity thus we must look elsewhere for the necessary data.

Granted it isn't like we can't look at actual historical data to know if something works.... say for instance the fact that the CDC reported the incidence of invasive Hib disease dropped from 40-100 per 100,000 children down to 1.3 per 100,000 due to routine usage of the Hib vaccine from 1980 to 1990. Surely that is merely a coincidence.

Then again, Australia found the same thing... which results in this chart showing how the Hib vaccine resulted in over a 90% drop in reported cases in 12 years and actually eliminated all fatalities within 7 years.

It still must just be a coincidence right?  I mean we can't use this type of data because it isn't part of a double-blind randomized and controlled study... so it must be garbage.

Then again, there have never been double-blind randomized and controlled studies proving the efficacy of parachutes either, and there won't be anytime soon.  Does that mean we shouldn't trust the efficacy of parachutes?  Of course not, because we already know they save lives.  We already have more than enough evidence to know that parachutes are a great idea, and we know what the alternative is.  To suggest we need a double-blind study to determine whether parachutes work or not would be unethical (and obviously idiotic), but when you think about it, vaccines are no different.


So the next time an antivaxxer asks for a double-blind study aka: a "vax vs. unvaxxed" study showing the efficacy of vaccines, just ask them if they are willing to participate in a double-blind study for parachutes.  Sure that seems incredibly stupid, but so does the idea of passing on a vaccine because of scientific ignorance or fear.

Now if you need an example that is more in tune with vaccine, simply look no further than shoulder-mounted three point safety belts in automobiles.  We know the usage of such devices has resulted in many lives saved, and we know what the statistics are prior to their usage much in the way we know what the rates of disease were prior to vaccines being developed.  So should automobile manufacturers be required to perform double-blind studies on seat belts prior to installing them in vehicles?  Should they be required to report any findings of shoulder injury or broken arms due to the seat belts even though those same people may have died without the seat belt?

Our world isn't always so black and white, and sometimes the data is impossible to obtain via a perfectly controlled scientific study.  In some cases we need to look at the other sources of evidence such as infection rates or historical data.  It may not always be as clean and concise as a chart listing infection rates of X vs. Y, but unless you are willing to jump out of a plane without a parachute you really have no business complaining about a lack of double-blind studies.

Lowell Hubbs: Making Friends Wherever He Goes

If you waste more than two minutes of your life interacting with Lowell Hubbs you will soon realize that he believes he is some sort of messenger or warrior of truth.  In fact, many of Mr. Hubbs various usernames involve some form of these terms including the names "TruthStorm", "TruthEducation", and "Anti Vax Warrior" among others.  Although Mr. Hubbs has no formal training to education in any medical, scientific, or related field, and although he has never participated in or contributed to any clinical studies or research papers, he still feels he is the only person on the planet who has a grasp on subjects like vaccines, pharmaceuticals, and the root cause of cancer.

Therefore, it stands to reason that someone of Mr. Hubbs' "character" would feel the need to spread his vast amount of knowledge (sarcasm intended) to others at any opportunity he can find.  Most recently, Mr. Hubbs has discovered the commentary site Huffington Post which is well known for publishing articles by Jenny McCarthy along with any other anti-vaccine claptrap they can find.  Because of the well known viewpoints of the website, one would think Mr. Hubbs would fit right in - yet that hasn't been the case.

Rest assured Mr. Hubbs did go out of his way to post on any anti-vaccine story he could find and he offered some fantastic quotes that tell us more about him.  My personal favorite was the following which was posted by Mr. Hubbs in late February:

Yes you read that correctly.  Mr. Hubbs actually made a statement  complaining others haven't review his "work", as if to suggest he has actually produced something that could be considered "work".  Apparently in the disturbed mind of Lowell Hubbs, collecting links to anti-vaccine websites mixed in with the occasional YouTube video or quote from someone who claims there is a link between vaccines and autism and dumping all of this nonsense onto your own website (essentially doing nothing more than aggregating the data from multiple sources into one) is the equivalent of producing an end result... or in his simple terms it equates to "work".

Aside from the sheer nonsense involved in this line of thinking, as it turns out even in an anti-vaccine stronghold such as HuffPo, Mr. Hubbs was still seen as a moron and the comments posted in reference to his identified flaws in his logic as well as mocked him for his lack of understanding of the issues.  True to form, Mr. Hubbs immediately jumped on the defensive and resorted to his standard tactic of claiming "nothing would be enough" and that he has adequate proof for his claims (even though he is never actually able to provide it from the unbiased sources he pretends exist).

In fact as he so often does, Mr. Hubbs fired of no less than a dozen different comments on that one very same article all in defense of his anti-vaccine stance and including references to Andrew Wakefield, Andy Moulden, the misconception that the Amish don't suffer from autism, and even statements about Jenny McCarthy's son having his autism "cured" by biomedical treatment (even though doctors have openly stated McCarthy's son never had autism in the first place).

Even in one of the most well known anti-vaccine commentary sites on the Internet, Mr. Hubbs nonsense was simply too silly to ignore and soon enough there were other posters coming out of the woodwork to challenge his claims and show him for what he is... a vaccine conspiracy theorist with no education or training and a complete misunderstanding of the issues.

Obviously this upset Mr. Hubbs greatly which resulted in him lashing out as his critics rather than offering legitimate science to support his views.  Ignoring the fact that Mr. Hubbs seems to direct the same language and tired lines at anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with him (as has been displayed within the comments on this very blog countless times), in the end even the people at HuffPo couldn't deal with his idiocy and Mr. Hubbs found his account removed and his right to comment suspended within one month of originally registering.  In fact, if you search for Mr. Hubbs' profile today it cannot be found as it no longer exists.  Case in point:

So if a person is so far off the logic scale that their anti-vaccine rhetoric cannot even be welcomed in an anti-vaccine stronghold, what does that tell us?  How can someone actually get themselves kicked off of a website known for promoting the concept of vaccines being harmful in under a month?  The fact is, even those who have doubts about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines don't want to be associated with a conspiracy theorist nor do they want to deal with someone who is unable to debate a topic on a rational level without resorting to red herrings, ad hominems, or practically every other logical fallacy known to man.

Perhaps one day Mr. Hubbs will learn, but I wouldn't count on it.  I would be willing to bet he has already registered a new username on HuffPo with the hopes that he can slip through the moderators and start his process all over again.  Instead of objectively looking at the reasons on why his messages haven't been so well received, or instead of trying to address his flaws and present his information in a well thought out, articulate, and polite manner, Mr. Hubbs will simply blame those around him for trying to suppress his message and once again return to his pattern of labeling those around him as "sheeple" and "uninformed".

As Alanis Morisette once said:  Isn't it ironic?

Update 03/27/11:  Mr. Hubbs has responded and claims nobody suspended or removed his account.  Instead he claims he removed the account himself because he "did not care to have [his] facebook picture and account exposed on the google listing for that article".  I really don't know if I follow that logic since a Google search of "Lowell Hubbs" will still return links to numerous anti-vaccination websites (this very blog is listed as the top three results by the way) including references to Wakefield, and Mr. Hubbs own website lists the same sad excuses and attempted statements in defense of Wakefield, so I'm not sure what pulling his Huffington Post account down would actually accomplish when the same statements are found elsewhere.

Also, Mr. Hubbs has never been the type to actually walk away from a debate, as we have seen countless times before he just continues to cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste time and time again and the only reason he ever stops is when the forum or article he is commenting on is closed or removed.  However, in the interest of full disclosure I felt it was necessary to at least offer Mr. Hubbs' version of events even if I'm not totally convinced he is being honest about the situation.